Sunday, October 21, 2012
#5 - Waodani
WAODANI – It might be easy for us to try to identify with the missionaries (because we’re the “nice Christian people too”) – but not so fast. What things do we see in the Waodani people that are also seen within our culture (even within our school culture and community)? What were the ways in the film that the missionaries tried to meet and bless the Waodani people in ways they could understand? How else do we see this in the Bible, and how else does/should this happen in our world today? How are we supposed to approach unbelievers – how are we supposed to approach people who do not have the same cultural backgrounds as us? Can you speak from Scripture as you answer and consider these things?
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I very clearly saw that I am similar in some ways to the Waodani. The most basic and upfront example of that is when he was mad at Kimo and was yelling that we prove our own strength by our own merit (in their case by killing). I know that I struggle, people I know struggle, and our culture struggles with the deep need to prove yourself. Making your own strength. Being big enough on your own.
ReplyDeleteThe missionaries were a great example of God's free gift. Physical gifts at the beginning, living with each other in the middle, and ultimately Steve forgiving entirely at the end. The missionaries (and hopefully me and other christians in our society/ culture) were able to grant those gifts not on the merit of others, but on God's good grace.
Too many things to process at once! I'll comment more as I'm able to think about it more
Has anyone seen the men in suits walking around subdivisions? How should we confront them?
ReplyDeleteThey are like the Waodani in some ways because they need to be saved. However, trying to convert them while they convert us is a challenge. I've heard the saying, "Kill them with kindness," but is that always the answer?
Please reply.
But don't we all need to be saved, even you and me? Don't we do the same thing with God's words? Mix them around so they are what we want them to say? Convert... Don't we all deserve to die too? I like your ideas but these may be some things to think about sometime. :D
DeleteI don't know if "Killing them with kindness" is the right wording. I agree that the people of other religions need to be saved and I also agree with Taylor that we need to be saved too. I think being kind to them is important, but the more important factor is that we get the point of Jesus Christ across. Jesus says that we should go out and be disciples.
DeleteUm well the missionaries tried doing that but a waodani people screwed it up. So what do you do then? It not easy to kill them with kindness when they just killed your folks. Just saying. I now this is kinda off topic, but if someone killed my favorite brother, it would be just as hard to forgive them like the others did.
DeleteVal - are you referencing Mormons? Jehovah's Witnesses? What are principles for addressing any non-believer? How are we go go about this? Is a "conversion war" the best course of action? If not, what is?
DeleteMiss Vermillion, regarding the Waodani, your point about killing them with kindness in the face of their actual killing of your folks is well taken. When it comes to issues of forgiveness - or what makes it hard for us - what would you say are the hardest things to forgive and why?
I think the hardest thing to forgive them is their morals Why? Well because your going to be thinking to your self, They killed the wrong person.
DeleteI'll come with better explanation after school :)
Ok sorry I started posting then I had to go to youth group then I sent it and it delated.
DeleteAnyway... Our hearts harden when people do wrong doings toward us. As a protection from bringing hurt again, we try to ignore what they say to us making it hard to forgive others. Their are different action to different wrong doings, that was just one of them.I think the hardest sin to forgive would be lying, murdering, and possibly stealing.
Lying because everyone wants the truth or at least a"sugar coating" We want to be able to trust other, not doubt them.
Murdering because no one wants to know that a loved one has been slaughtered by a manic.
and last but not least, stealing. To be honest it really depends on what they steal. if it's a pencil, no biggie. If it's irreplaceable photos or jewelry then that memories and money down the drain.
One big thing that I see at Westminster, or in the eighth grade are clicks that are formed and leave people out. In the movie their was the same kind of thing. There is a large Waodoni tribe, but there was many different separate people in that group trying to fight for who could be the most powerful or the strongest. I also see murder in the movie, that could be considered as putting people down with words, or physically hurting somebody. I also realize that we all deserve to die. Every one of the waodani people and the people at Westminster deserve to die. Westminster students sin just like the Waodani tribe does, and in God's eyes a sin is a sin and we ALL deserve to die. God's one and only son was perfection and through Him we are allowed to go to heaven.
ReplyDeleteHmmm...I know you've heard it in grade school and your whole lives, but when we say things like "all sin is equal" or "we sin just like the Waodani tribe," come on! Sin is different. Our sin is way different than theirs. If I say something gossipy about someone and it hurts their feelings, that can't possibly the same as throwing an actual spear at someone in the hallway (I think our handbook forbids bringing spears anyway). Seriously, hacking someone to death with a machete CANNOT be the same as "putting people down." Right? Can we explain these ideas biblically?
DeleteAlso, regarding "cliques," is it a bad thing to have "groupings" in the cafeteria? When is it wrong? Could it ever be right and good? Be honest folks, do you think groups within our school "try to "fight" for position or recognition - that groups of people try to be cooler/stronger/better than other groups? If so, how? If not, explain.
I see your point and you put up a good argument. I understand why you could say that.
DeleteIn the Ten commandments it says Do not Murder and it also says Do not lie. These sins are a whole lot different but they are sins. When Adam and Eve sin, they break a promise, but murder is a whole lot worse right? I don't agree with that because God says all sins are sins, no matter what the kind, if Jesus hadn't come down to save us and if I murdered somebody, and Billy Bob told a lie, we would both be going to hell. But since Jesus, our perfection came down and took away our sin, we are allowed to go to heaven.
Clicks or groups can be a bad and good thing and I think they can be good because people find their own groups of people that they can relate too. The speaker in chapel also said that he fell into sin because the group of friends that he hung out with led him away from God which could be a bad thing. I also think that they can be bad, when people start to find themselves being excluded from a group or find out that the people in that group start gossiping about you. When this happen, people feel betrayed because when their "friends" exclude or gossip, you find out that they aren't really your friends.
Those are both really good points! the whole sin is equal thing can be kinda confusing though because just as Mr.Talley said stabbing someone with a spear is much worse than gossiping about someone is true but I have to agree with taylor on this one because the Bible says in Romans ch. 3 that everyone's sin is the same, and how would God judge the world then because we are all under sin. And it was by grace that God died for our sins and He is so merciful to forgive our sins. To be exact Romans 3:23 says for all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God, are justified by his grace a gift through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. That verse pretty much backed up romans 3 on what its's saying about how all of us have sinned no matter what it is but God's overpowering mercy and grace and rightousness along with countless things about Him have saved us.
DeleteAlso I would like to add in on the cliques and all that. It's sort of a half and half deal with friend groups because it can be good because as it says in Genesis ch.11 about the tower of Babel that God wants us to be diverse and not have one community of people but to go out and be diverse. But it can be bad because our friend groups can easily define us, and God is supposed to define us in everything that we do.
I agree! There are clicks and many of the times, those people that are in the same click, are very much alike. And whenever someone different comes along, they automatically don't trust them just like the tribe and the missionaries.
DeleteMr. Talley, are you suggesting that our handbook does not forbid bringing a machete? Commenting on Mr. Talley's first paragraph, take the Batman movie theater murder case which you (Talley) have been talking about. You said it yourself, that we are just as bad as the gunman. Every human deserves death and eternal punishment.
DeleteI agree with hannah clicks can be very excluding and when your not in a click you feel left out and invisable. I think If we did not judge people there would be no clicks at all. But we are all sinners and can't handle the privaliges of friendship
DeleteI think the Waodani people are like us because they where hesitant to trust anyone outside there own people group. We think it should have been easy for the Waodani peopl to trust the missionaries because to us they were godly and trustworthy people. To the Waodani people they where intruders. Its like when someone new tries to join are "group" or school. It feels uncomfortable to trust them becuase we dont know them. It takes time and effort to bulid up trust in a relationship. We are most comfortable around people like us.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Mudorf.
Deletepeople don't like stepping out of their "comfort zone" If they do they end up being ridiculed and judged so they step back in and stay their.
I totally agree with you Caitlin!
DeleteIt is so easy to scoff at them, without realizing that we are doing the same exact thing in our everyday lives. None (or at least most ha ha) of us carry around spears everywhere, but we gossip, start lying about, get revenge on, and more about people that do wrong to us. Those can be like spears without actually killing the person. All of us hate stepping out of our comfort zones, but sometimes it can be a good thing. But you also have to be discerning about who you trust, because some people ( the white settlers in the movie) really just want and are trying to purposefully "kill you" or hurt you and your emotions.
Great point Caitlin! I think that often times, we feel that being different is a bad thing. It can be, but if its in a bad way. The Bible tells us that we are to look like aliens to the non-believers in everything that we do. Society makes it really hard to achieve this task, which leaves us straying away from God, even though we may not see it. It's also easy to judge people by their outward appearance. In the movie, Dayumae's brother didn't believe that she was actually there because her attitude had completely changed towards herself and towards others. It takes a lot of courage to stand up for what is right.
Deletec mundorf. I totally agree with you. It does take time to build a trustworthy relationship with someone you dont know. And surely we are just like them, when we dont know someone nd we feel they are intruding or they are different from us it is hard for us to trust them.
DeleteYa..I agree with C. Mundorf, the Indians DID NOT want to accept the outside world, the liked the way their world was and they didn't want anything to change. Sometimes we are like that to, we have our own little world, perfect and the way we want it to be, but when anyone messes with our little world...we freak. we don't want anything to change and we don't want to accept the fact that our world will always change no matter what and we just have to put our trust in God and let him take over.
DeleteGoing back to the whole click thing....
DeleteLike Madi and Taylor both said clicks can be good and bad. Clicks are good because we get to know those people better and can trust them more. But they can be really bad and misleading. Its one thing if your just in a group of friends because they are like you. Its another if you have to try to gt into that "group" and think about how to be accepted by them, and it fills your mind all the time,or you get jealous because you are not in that group you want to be in...that's when clicks get sinful..I think.
I totally agree Caitlin. I think maybe another sin about friend groups is that sometimes they lead us astray. I like how Madi said they define us. We can enter in a friend group as someone and leave as an entirely different person. Again, this could be good or bad. The important thing is picking a friend group that won't change you, unless your friends are changing you for the better, like leading you closer to God or holding you accountable. A friend group can change you for the worst by getting you into bad stuff or skrewing up your relationship with God.
DeleteThat was good Caitlin. i understand what you mean too. Our people groups that we have now, are the people that we are most comfortable with and when we are put into other groups it just doesn't feel the same. We can all relate to the Waodani tribe in some way.
DeleteI would love to be friends with every one yet also have my really close group of friends that I can share anything to.
DeleteWe are like the Indians in our current culture because we are lying, betraying, sinful people...we do all the things that the Indians do. well sure we don't murder (I hope) but we do lie,steal,cheat,gossip, and many more.
ReplyDeleteIn the Bible and in the Movie, usually the traditional greeting/welcoming was a gift. we tend to give gifts in our culture to, the missionaries brought presents to the Indians, just like the Bible characters do, and just like we Americans do.
I definitely agree with Matt. In the film, the tribe, is constantly sinning, lying, and betraying, like Matt said. Do we seriously need someone to tell us it's wrong? I also think that we are like the Waodani people in how we act. What I'm trying to say, is that we tend to not rust anyone ever, fully, unless they are the same as us. I think that's wrong and we should not be like that.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Hannah,I think it is wrong of us to only trust people just like us. But it is so hard! You trust people you know,but why? The people you know are just as capable of sinning against you as the people you don't know.So I think we need to step out of are comfort zone,and trust more people. But also be careful like V.Winkler said. I think we should trust more people that are not like us,but at the same time, I don't think we should go around telling everyone everything.
DeleteI agree with you about the "not going around telling everyone anything." If we tell everyone the wrong things, there could easily be WWIII.
DeleteI agree with Caitlin that we should try to step out of the comfort zone. For some people, thats really really hard just to talk to anyone their not comfortable with. I also agree with Valerie. We definently should not put our trust in everyone. Putting your trust in the wrong people can lead to very bad things. I think that is why people have trouble reaching out. It's the fear of being betrayed. The Waodani people were afraid that the missionaries would trick them. We shouldn't let the fear keep us from trusting others. Because when the time comes, everyone needs someone to lean on.
DeleteI would imagine coming into another culture would be very confusing, because the way people act may be different from the way you acted back in your culture. Much the same, The Waodani didn't know what the missionaries were trying to do. So they weren't open to accepting the help that they were trying to offer. The missionaries were hoping to get the Waodani to accept Jesus. I think that the missionaries did a good job at the beginning, but the reason they were killed was that the Waodani lied to avoid getting into trouble. So I think that the incident was not the on the missionaries. We should love non believers. Because even if its hard we can introduce them to the love of God through how we treat them.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Dean. the missionaries did do a great job in the beggining at trying to welcome the Waodani tribe to know Jesus. A little lie was told and it messed things up from there on, but the I do understand the fact that we should love the non believers too.
DeleteI agree with you Dean. I think the missionaries did an incredible job of moving past cultural differences to minister to the waodinis. If i was in their shoes I don't know if I would've been sble to push past such differences. I think the missionaries humbled themselves down to the waodinis and showed them that they are all equal. They did that by living like them and with them
DeleteI think those are good points Christina and Marissa. I highly doubt that I would be able to do what they did either, because I think that I would have a hard time understanding the cultural difference. I would also like to mention that we are also kinda like the Waodani as in sometimes that when people offer us help, we abuse it. For example sometimes when we get help from a teacher we rely on what they said then rather than everything else they taught.
DeleteDean, I completely agree! I think that for our culture we judge people a lot by their actions or appearances. Even today that happens. The movie was really descriptive on how easy it is to fall under the sin of judging. The Indians judged the American families and thought that they were all evil, and ended up being wrong. Forgiveness was still shown to them after all they had done.
DeleteGod loves everyone, no matter what their sin is . Yes we need to repent and ask for forgiveness, but God knows the heart and knows exactly how to deal with a person. the tribe could have handled their situations a little bit better instead of killing off each other but it still had a great impact on the story.
ReplyDeleteThe way that the missionary son didn't kill the Waodani in the end, and spared his life is exactly what Jesus did for us. After everything that we deserve, he spared our lives and saved us.
Great point marissa! and yes God does know the heart as it says in the Bible, and just as God died on the cross for us and we did nothing for that it was our free gift it just shows how merciful He is and how we should treat others just how Christ did for us.
DeleteMr. Scott's Bible Class is finished with the project.
ReplyDeleteI just found a verse I think applies. Mark 16:15 says, "And he said to them, 'Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.'"I think the missionaries live out this verse amazingly. They went into a place where noone would think to go. They wanted so badly for the Waodini's to come to Christ, they would set aside alldifferences to work towards that one goal.
ReplyDeleteThere are some ways I can identify people with the Waodani. One being the fact that we are all sinners and often currupt the truth (lying). We are presured into thiking one way or an other thus resulting in a possible change in personality. Finaly, we seek revenge even when we are trying so hard to fight against revenge. Mr. Talley has been saying that the battle is not always just physical but spiritual as well.
ReplyDeletepatrick, i've never thought of it like that. I know i am a sinner but it's different when i am compared to the Waodani. Maybe were the same but I really feel like spearing ten people is way worse than lying to your parents.
ReplyDeleteIn both of our cultures we see sin, judgment, jealousy, and hate. However, we also see love nd faithfulness. With kindness and compassion. The ways in the film that the missionaries tried to meet and bless the Waodani people in ways they could understand was when they gave them medical care nd they didnt kill them after killing their families. we see this in the Bible when God shows grace on the world when Jesus is killed. This should happen in our would by we the people showing grace nd mercy. Nd forgiving those who sinned against us. We are suppose to approach them out of love and care. Nd in a good godly way thats not rude nd mean. yea you can speak from Scripture as you answer and consider these things
ReplyDeleteI think we could try to share the gospel to non believers by being nice to them and then maybe showing them a couple bible verses and at least try to get them interested in what your saying.
ReplyDelete